Episode Transcript
Welcome to healing in Christ Light. I'm Jeni Brockbank, and I am so grateful to have you join me. I'm looking forward to learning more about how Jesus Christ heals us. Anyone who would like to learn more about healing with the Savior is welcome here. And this program might largely be beneficial to those who have experienced hard circumstances due to a loved one's actions of abuse, addiction, adultery and or abandonment. And I'll refer to this as four-A behavior.
Here's a brief intro into why I'm curious about the subject of why experiencing four-A's isn't the fault of the person on the receiving end. And that's not to say, to be clear, that we're perfect. We're not perfect. We have things that we can improve on and learn, and that type of behavior is not the fault of the person receiving it.
My husband has struggled with sex addiction for over three decades, and I'm really excited, by the way, to ask him some questions here in a moment. But I started this journey with strong misunderstandings about doctrine, my role in my husband's recovery and how healing can happen. In fact, I thought that I could for- sure- fix him. Maybe you relate, maybe some of you do.
As I share the following, it's important that I also state that I have a lot of self-compassion as to how and why I came to these misunderstandings. I strongly misunderstood my role in his healing and unintentionally tried to be his Savior by trying to control the atmosphere in our home, by restoring trust immediately after apologies without seeing changed behavior. So the trust had not really been earned. I confused forgiveness with trust. I also went as far as to make sure that I was home when he was home, which made me like this self-made jailer for myself and others, and being intimate with him whenever he wanted and more was also there. I also did things like looked at the women that he was looking at and tried to see if I could maybe do my makeup more like them or my hair or something like that or clothes so that he would be more faithful to me.
The question today is why did I do this? And why do I still have this pull to do this sometimes? And why do many of us try to save our loved ones from themselves? While there are several reasons why this could be, I've kind of boiled it down for me at least to one thing, and it's this. I have mistakenly thought that if my loved one's behavior is my fault, then if I can just fix whatever about myself, then the other person will act differently. It's a way to feel false empowerment over my circumstances.
Friend, if you relate, then I am sending you so much love and empathy. I wish that I could reach through my microphone and hug you. I know that this is hard. My heart sees you. And more importantly, the Savior understands. Common behaviors of those of us on the receiving end of four-A type behavior that we might engage in might include things like we might rescue them financially, or perhaps we keep their secrets and we don't get the help that we need. Or maybe we just don't set the boundaries that are needed because we want to be peacemakers. All of these things are normal responses. They are threaded with righteous desires. And if you've been in the battle, like I have for a while, you will come to see, like I have, that they are not lasting solutions. They might even work for a time, and eventually, they don't work. They don't work anymore.
What I've come to see is also there are different ways, better ways, more Christ centered ways to focus on solutions for these problems. A good awakening happened for me when I came to understand that my husband's struggles were not because of anything that I had or had not done. This applies to you, too. This understanding was very painful because I could see that I had exerted a lot of unnecessary effort that hadn't fixed the problem and sometimes had even enabled my husband's behavior.
Also, I had tried to control things that weren't in my purview. The relief was so great when I could finally put down that heavy boulder that I was trying to carry that, “oh, if I could just fix this or this or this, this would be better,” and to instead practice handing my loved one over to the Savior. It turns out I have no power to save, but the Savior does.
I've not fully arrived at learning how to do this well, and I am still learning. As such, I decided to ask my husband to join us today. In truth, I consider it brave and vulnerable for him to let me ask him some questions publicly, and I appreciate his willingness to share his thoughts. I'm so grateful to welcome Bart Brockbank to the program.
Jeni: Hello, Barticus. Thank you so much for joining me.
Bart: Hi.
Jeni: Hi. Okay, I have a question for you. In order to set the stage, I'm wondering if you'd just take a few minutes and recap your story a little bit.
Bart: Sure. So I was introduced to pornography and masturbation when I was about the age of nine. And over the years, it progressively became a more and more frequent occurrence, more and more frequent use. And I would hide it from people, I hid it from my parents, I hid it from religious leaders, but I would also try and seek it out at any opportunity that I could. It continued to get worse. Until about the time that I was ready to go on a mission. And at that point I stopped looking at pornography and masturbating for a time, went on my mission, and during my mission I started to struggle again.
Jeni: And to be clear, just to go back a little bit, because I feel like you've told me that you did sometimes best and you did try to get help, but you felt kind of stuck in it. Does that seem right?
Bart: Yeah, there were times when I would confess it was really difficult because as a kid growing up, it seemed like if you confessed to having a problem, then you got in trouble. And if you lied about it and said, “no, I don't have a problem,” then there was no question about it. They didn't push you on it. And you'd get your temple recommend. You'd get your recommend to go to the church dances. You were able to participate in all of the priesthood ordinances and you were able to participate in all of the activities that young men and women want to participate in.
Jeni: And you're talking about as being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, right?
Bart: Yes.
Jeni: Got it. Okay, so we were back to the point where you were on a mission and you were starting to struggle again.
Bart: Yeah, so I started to struggle and my mission president found out about it and he talked to me and he worked with me for the rest of my mission to try and help me work through it and overcome it. And after my mission, I got home and had access to the internet pretty much for the first time. Having that access increased my use of pornography exponentially, and with the pornography came the masturbation, the acting out. It progressively continued to get worse until I moved to Arizona. When I moved to Arizona, I was able to stop looking at pornography. I stopped masturbating and did really well while I was down there and that's when I met my wife.
Jeni: Hello.
Bart: I did really well and was feeling really pretty good about my situation. Felt at that point like I had overcome it and I thought that it was behind me. When we got engaged, I moved back up to Washington State with my parents and it was shortly after that that I started looking at pornography again and acting out.
Jeni: And I didn't know. Right?
Bart: Yes, and Jeni did not know. When we got married, I made a commitment to stop and I did for about the first three to six months, trying to remember anyway. The first part of our marriage I was able to avoid and stay away from pornography and masturbation. But it wasn't very long into our marriage that it started creeping back into my life and I started viewing pornography and acting out again. From that point, the behavior continued and. Sometimes it would get better. Sometimes it would get worse. Sometimes. There were periods of time when I would stop for months. The longest period that I went during our marriage was two years. But it always ended up creeping back into my life. It made things very hard for our family. It made it hard for me. When I was acting out, I was not a very nice person. I could be very irritable, very upset. I could yell, swear, and really be emotionally and verbally abusive to people.
Jeni: Thank you for sharing all of that. I really appreciate it. I know that it's a vulnerable thing to do, and it's humbling that you would do that with me publicly. So very cool of you. Thank you. And I want to move into a little bit, because what I find is that spouses of those with destructive behaviors or family members of those with destructive behaviors or friends we take on us like the responsibility. They must be acting that way because of me. And so I want to ask you a question. Did you act out ever because I was not enough or I was too much? Either of those?
Bart: I did not. My acting out behavior and I've told Jeni this before her. It really had nothing to do with her. I love Jeni with all my heart, and it tears me up that I have done things that have been hurtful to her and that have. Caused her trauma and hurt over the years, but honestly, none of my acting out behavior has been because of anything that she has done or has not done.
Jeni: I really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. I just want to point out that over the years, as I've learned about this, I've come to just kind of wake up to the fact that really what I was trying to do when I was trying to save and rescue you, that I was trying to be your Savior, and only Jesus Christ can be the Savior. Like, I cannot do that. And this is a scripture from Alma 34:10. “For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice. Yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of foul, for it shall not be a human sacrifice, but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.” And I have a friend that pointed the scripture out to me that I can't be my husband's Savior. I can't save you. I can't save anyone, not even really myself. That is the job of somebody who is the only being who is qualified to offer an infinite and eternal sacrifice, which isn't any of us. So I think that's tricky because we also have to learn to not control and to give our loved one to the Savior instead of trying to fix the problem ourselves and control the issue. So I just want to tell you that I recognize that I have tried to be a Savior. I have tried to drag you at times when I feel like I should have given you to God or let you make your own choices and implement boundaries and participated in soul care so that I was more emotionally regulated. And I want to do better that I'm practicing doing better at that. And I love you, and thank you for being patient with me, as I have learned that.
Bart: Thank you. And I love you, too.
Jeni: So I have a question for you. When I started to get healthier, and I started to work my own recovery, what kinds of things did I do that were helpful for you?
Bart: Some of the things that you did that were really helpful for me I hate to say it, but probably the biggest thing was for you to institute boundaries. You having healthy boundaries in place made it so that I had to be more accountable. I had to be responsible for my actions. And I wasn't able to just turn the tables on you and try and make it seem like it was your fault that something was happening or to try and make it seem like whatever you perceived was going on wasn't accurate. I couldn't gaslight you.
Jeni: As well.
Bart: Yes.
Jeni: I'll throw that in there as well.
Bart: Yeah. And having those healthy boundaries really helped me better see what behaviors I needed to change.
Jeni: Thank you for sharing that. And that's validating. When family members first start putting in boundaries, it's so foreign to somebody struggling with destructive behaviors that they're, like, often flailing trying to figure out. And that was the case for you, where you were really distressed because it was something brand new, and it was new for me, too. Can you speak to that? That was a hard process to start learning that, wasn't it?
Bart: Yeah. Learning to accept boundaries, learning how to implement boundaries in healthy ways was a really difficult process. I remember feeling like when you first started putting boundaries in, I felt like it was just you trying to punish me.
Jeni: And to validate that a little bit when I was brand new at it, there was probably some of that in there. Like, I didn't know what I was doing right, and so I wasn't the healthiest about doing it, and it was just a brand new thing. So just to validate that, there probably was some- Boundary! Consequence!
Bart: Yeah, well, and we were both learning. And I even got to the point where I started trying to implement boundaries myself, and I was worse off than you were trying to set some of my early boundaries. And true story, they were very manipulative and self serving.
Jeni: But I think it's okay that we're trying. Right? We were trying really hard and have fine tuned things a bit and are doing better, at least as we practice.
Bart: Yeah. And it is interesting to learn how boundaries work and how they can actually make a relationship healthier. And it's not even just a relationship with your spouse. It can be any relationship. Relationship with your friends, coworkers, family, extended family. Having healthy boundaries really helps provide a better life for us because we're able to know what we expect and other people are able to know what we expect of them and what to expect of us.
Jeni: I love that. I guess that kind of leads me to my next question, which is, how would you encourage family members and loved ones of those who have destructive behaviors to support them? What would support look like? And you already address boundaries. So I love that and we're going to take that with us here. What else would you encourage them to do?
Bart: I think one of the big things is to help them feel loved. One of the things that I struggled with and still do struggle with is feeling worthy of being loved. Because we get so caught up in our behavior and then we beat ourselves up for it and we tell ourselves how horrible of a person we are and how if people knew what we were doing, they would just hate us, they wouldn't want anything to do with us. So I think that feeling that love from people who are close to us is important.
Jeni: Well, and a question about that then, because we're talking about boundaries and then love too, right? So it gets a little confusing as to how that can look. Do you have thoughts about that? About how people can still express love but have boundaries in place?
Bart: Yeah, just because somebody has to put in strong boundaries doesn't mean that they don't love the person that they're putting boundaries in for. Yay true. You may be in a situation where things have gotten really bad and for example, say you have to put in a boundary to do an in-home separation or maybe something more drastic than that. From the addict side, it initially is going to feel like they're being punished and that they're not loved, and that things are just pretty much as bad as they could get. But if you can show them that the boundary is not meant to be a punishment, but is a chance to give them the opportunity to try and correct behaviors and that you're giving them that chance because you love them and you still want to try and work things out. I think that that can go a long way in helping the addict or the person struggling with pornography to be able to
Jeni: Or other destructive behavior.
Bart: Yes. Or other destructive to start to understand and realize that, okay, this isn't because they want to get rid of me. They're not just trying to throw me away. They're trying to provide an opportunity for me to fix things while they stay safe, while they're protecting themselves and keeping themselves safe from the addict's behaviors.
Jeni: I love that. I want to thank you for the opportunity that you've given me. And a few years ago, I came to you and I said, I just feel really strongly that I'm supposed to start a podcast about betrayal, trauma. And here I was. I was only, like, two years into my own recovery, and I was terrified because it was a very strong prompting.
Bart: So was I.
Jeni: Right! And the thing that has really meant a lot to me is you really thought about it, gave you some time to really think about it, and you finally came to me and said that you would be willing to let me share our story publicly. And really, I mostly share my story, but it does leave you as the obvious person who I'm talking about. And one, thank you for that. That's really been humbling to me. But two, I would like to know why you were willing to do that, why you were willing to give me a voice. And not only just give me a voice, but, like, right now I'm sitting in this amazing recording booth that you built me, that people have come who are well qualified in audio engineering and have been very impressed with it. And I am very impressed with it and very grateful for it. So why would you do that and give me a voice with something that leaves you so open and vulnerable?
Bart: Yeah. So, there's several things that play into that. One, I really do love you, and I want to support you in your endeavors.
Jeni: Thank you. I love you, too.
Bart: Two, I have seen the devastation and hardship that people experience while dealing with somebody who is struggling with addiction. I have seen how sharing my story with other people who are struggling with addiction has helped them receive strength. And listening to other people's experiences has strengthened me. I just knew that there were people out there, mostly women, who were struggling with betrayal of a spouse. I know that there's not good places for them to turn for support. And I wanted to allow you to share our story so that it could benefit other women who are struggling the way that you've struggled. Well, thank you. That is really humbling, and I really appreciate it. I will link my other podcast in the show notes for anybody who's interested.
Jeni: The last thing that I want to ask you is this: How has healing in Christ's light helped you in your healing?
Bart: For a long time, I felt like I had to do this on my own, that I couldn't trust other people. And I had learned that as a kid, that I couldn't trust people and that I had to do things on my own. And dealing with addiction, that was my philosophy, that I had to do it alone. I remember I was sitting in an ARP meeting and we were talking about the Atonement, and somebody made a comment about how selfish it was of a person to think that God didn't have power to heal them, that they were so bad. That the atonement didn't have place for them. And I remember thinking, man, that really is a lot of arrogance for a person to think that they have fallen so far that not even God himself has power to help them. That was the first time that I really started to look at how the Atonement and how Christ could help me in my recovery. I started to gain a better understanding of the atonement. But it wasn't until a few years ago that I had gone through kind of a rough phase in my life, and I was struggling with my testimony and had really gotten into a bad mental state regarding The Church and The Gospel. And I remember thinking back on that experience, remembering the feelings that I had about how arrogant it was to think that God and the atonement in Christ couldn't help me. So I started having conversations while I was praying. I started having conversations with my Savior. I felt more confident and more at ease speaking to Him as a brother. And so I started to ask God if I could just speak to Christ during my prayers. And I would. And I'd spend time just talking to Him as a brother and as a friend. And as I did that, I started to develop a relationship with my Savior and I started to gain a better understanding, at least for me, of who He was or who He is. My understanding of Christ has changed so much, and I see Him as such a different person than I did growing up, because we're taught that He's meek and humble and lowly, and those are aspects of who He is. I've come to understand that he is so much more than that. As I've gained a relationship with Him, I have really been able to learn who I am and to understand how much I'm loved. And to recognize that it doesn't matter how far I fall or how far from the gospel I stray, Christ is there for me. When I get to a point where I've turned my back or I've fallen away. When I'm ready and I turn back and decide I want to come back to the Lord, he's there with his arms wide open, ready to receive me, ready to love me. And that love never changes. That's been a big blessing and a source of strength for me.
